Celtics lose second straight, fall to Sixers 89-86
At least Troy Murphy made a shot, huh?
After winning their first five games with Nenad Krstic and Jeff Green, the Boston Celtics have now lost two straight. Krstic led the statistical way with 16 points and 15 rebounds, while Green added 18 points. And Ray Allen? Umm, the man has seen better days.
Doug Collins has the Sixers playing tough basketball. They’re no longer an easy out.
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Celtics Blog | Jay King | March 11, 2011
doug collins should definitely win coach of the year
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It’s tough to win when Ray Allen shoots poorly, whether it’s Game 7 in the Finals or a road game in Philly.
Some good things were seen tonight despite the loss. Krystic wants to play hard in a Celtics uniform, no question. He blew a couple of defensive assignments, but is learning.
Nobody could hit down the stretch. Some sloppy ball handling.
I hope they don’t see Philly in the first round, which could happen if the C’s end up in the 2 or 3 seed. Young athletic teams give them trouble and wear their old bodies down.
I had to remind myself that Big Baby was on the bench tonight, along with the usual injuries. We need everyone back come playoff time. Period.
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I have only a few things to say..The Celtics team is so 2010. The Celtics is no longer the scary team to beat. The Celtics has become just like any other ordinary team. The Celtics will not make it past the finals with this new team because both Oneal’s are old and injury prone and most likely will be down by game 3 of the playoffs and then what? The anchor of our defense has been sold over stupid contract disagreements!!! Banner 18 will definitely take as much time as it did before acquiring banner 17. Parting away with a unhappy Perkins is the curse of the Babe Ruth all over again in Boston. .Celtics is no longer that team the other team is scared off. Celtics is no longer that exciting and excited team. Even when they are leading, the excitement on their faces is just not there.. Emotionally I think the guys are still moaning Perkins, Nate and Marquis. Forget banner 18 this year..Mark my words!!
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We had the one spot almost guaranteed but once again we don’t show up for average or below average teams… they haven’t learned anything from not having home court last year… when they have game 7 in Chicago in this year’s eastern conference finals they can say if we only played the Clippers and sixers with desperation we would be home now. I sure hope fully healthy we will have enough to beat the Bulls.. have you seen the Bulls schedule the rest of the way? They will have home court, i only hope Miami doesn’t run the table.
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Chisala…miss KP do ya? Well when was the last time KP had 15 rebs and 16 pts in a game? The two best players tonight were the two new guys from the ‘trade’. The HOFs and other all-star (RR and his whopping 5 assists and ZERO FTs which means he was not driving to the hoop or being aggressive enough) played really poorly. SP & CA play a total of 33 mins and have 3 rebs (and the 2 rebs by SP are his first in 45 mins of Celtic play). Green had 4. TM only played 4 mins and had 2. What do those stats tell you? They tell me that once again the Celtics’ bench did not rebound as it should have. There is no emphasis on rebounding or boxing out players and that’s why the Celtics struggle. Those missed rebounds are extra shots for the opponents and less shots for them. PP rebounded tonight but only takes 7 shots? The Celtics for the umpteenth time did not show up with the focus needed. Yes, the injuries hurt but the new guys played like HOFs and the HOFs played like crap. Go Cs…
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Jay: If you interview Doc after games, can you please ask him why he doesn’t focus his team on rebounding?
Or getting focused on winning games, period? Once again, they came out lacking the energy needed to set the tone of this game.
It’s late in the season to play so carelessly. Are the starters bored? Tired? Maybe Doc needs to play them 10 mins a game and use the bench. Since they are losing games anyway, may as well give them some playing time, let them gel.
Krystic and Green are most impressive. At James: I confess I’m starting to admit the trade might have been for the best.
The C’s have the pieces of the puzzle to win a championship. But can they put it together in time for the playoffs? And do they want it badly enough?
Many, many questions arise. They don’t have that one player who can close out games, the guy who wants the ball, e.g. Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Hakeem, Magic, even Allan Iverson, ball hog that he was.
Pierce is slow and clumsy with the ball and always looking for a cheap foul call. Allan is a head case at times(Game 7 and this year at the FT line) Rondo is afraid of going to the free throw line and so won’t drive the lane in crunch time. KG doesn’t have the lift of younger days.
I’m hoping that Green will be that guy; he’s fast and he can score. I know the C’s can put the clamp on D in crunch time, but someone needs to put the ball in the net.
It’s way too early to write them off, yet way too late in the season to have so many concerns.
Right now, Chicago is the team to beat, not the Celtics or Heat or Orlando or that scoring machine in NYC. The Bulls are putting teams away, gaining momentum for the playoffs while the C’s struggle to find answers (and nurse people back to health)
Is Shaq in the country? Or off filming a movie or realty show somewhere?
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@James, have you been following the same Celtics team that everyone else in Boston has? Clearly you must be either Green or Kirstic’s relative to even hint that the Celtics are just lucky to have those two players? Let me put it in simple and straight forward English, those two players regardless of how many rebounds or points they bring to the table, will not be able to fend off anybody in the playoffs or the finals (well we dont even have to worry about finals now since we not going there anytime soon). As for that worthless Kirstic, remind me again and of course him on what position he is supposed to be playing because he clearly he doesn’t remember..Garnett ends up doing his job while he trys not to seem too excited to be playing for a team like the Celtics. Seriously!!! James, tell me something, do you think “The New Celtics” team is still a team that sends shivers to teams like Miami, Orlando, Chicago, Lakers or even Utah Jazz? Hell no? Do you think both O’neals will come through when they are “most needed?” There is a good reason Chicago and Lakers fans threw parties after hearing that Perkins was gone! Hey you wouldn’t know that because you probably don’t follow the Celtics as close as others…Trading Perkins this late in the season is exactly like giving up one little piece of a diamond for 15 pieces of cubic Zirconia. Quantity is never quality, so don’t mix up the two!! Yes we have more options now but do we have the great player/s that we had in Perkins to guard the other great opponents, is the question? Please, putting Kistic in a game 6 finals would be as good as having my 5 year old son play center while licking candy…In case you wondering what am trying to imply and so my point is that it doesn’t make sense and won’t make sense any time soon!!
You need to understand this, it doesn’t matter how well Jeff and Kirstice or whoever else is on the new Celtics bench can score and what offense they can play, it’s defense that beats good teams, fends off other great teams in playoffs and wins championships. Obviously both Kirstic and Green can learn defense but they need to 5 years minimum to get comfortable with the championship defense that Perkins offred the Celtics and of course the most important people, us, the fans!! You can bring in 10 Jeff Greens, 5 Kistics, 8 Sasha whoevers, 15 Troy Murphys and 2 Arroyos to play against only 1 Kobe Bryant but without the proper understanding of what “good old” Celtics defense is (which i doubt we’ll ever see anytime soon), they would not be able to hold Kobe back. Since the trade, have you noticed how the team’s chemistry is off and how the starters look miserable? Ya, that’s the kind of attitude and energy that will get us to the finals, not!!! It’s like the new Miami heat all over again blaming every loss on stupid chemistry that we would not have been subject to if that stupid Ainge would have just eased up on too much coffee…You think the team we have now with all the emotional baggage (clearly), injuries, old age and now no-defense, will go past Chicago or even Bobcats in the playoff, ha? Look do yourself a a favor and forget seeing the finals this year because Ainge has already robbed us that chance when he decided to destroy a team that was doing perfectly well and winning games just the way it was? There is a reason this saying exists “If it’s not broken, don’t fix it.”
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@ Chris H, Shaq is busy shooting his reality show with his new young girlfriend and I hear he has too many endorsements up his wallet which makes me wonder if that kind of thing can kind of discourage an old guy from an early return..Lets see if i were Shaq..Sit around make more money with reality show and these MA endorsements (e.g his recent Concast ad) or take back my 40 yr old tired body back on the Celtics court when I have already made my money and name in the NBA? If I were Shaq, I would choose the former!! Just saying!!! I doubt Shaq feels for the Celtics team as much as Perkins did so to him it’s just business..Hey let’s suffer the consequences of betraying our good old Perkins and resting all our hopes for a new championship on 2 banged up O’neals that clearly couldn’t care less about the Celtics and Celtic nation if it weren’t for a paycheck that they obviously couldn’t get somewhere else!!
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There’s something surreal going on in the Celtics universe. Reality has turned upside down and everyone has pretended not to notice. I remember a time when everyone agreed that defense was the rock on which the Celtics team was built, and that Perkins was the anchor of our defense. I remember an entire town pining for Perkins, anxiously awaiting the return of this Celtics Saint. And all he did was come back in record time, playing his heart out, bolstering our rebounding and defense just in time, as Shaq faded away.
Now all that is forgotten. Now we sing our hosannas to a new Celtics Saint, the missing piece to the puzzle, Nenad Krstic. Now the scales have fallen from our eyes, and we suddenly see that Perkins was holding us back. And there are many other new Celtic Saints to rejoice over now, it seems, instant stalwarts like Green, Murphy, Sasha, Arroyo. My goodness, how could we possibly have put up with the scrubs we had before? Who did we have before, anyway? Oh, and Shaq will return, more mighty than ever.
What’s weird about this isn’t just the fickleness of fans, though that is rather stunning. One hears fans and writers declaring that we should ‘put aside emotion’ and ‘get over it’, because it’s ‘just a business’. What kind of bizarro world do such assertions come from?! Anyone who has ever played sports or watched sports knows that, even though sports has its business side and its cold hearted aspects, it’s fundamentally about emotion.
But what’s perhaps weirder is the way an entire fandom and its retinue of writers, bloggers, etc., seems to have forgotten, overnight, everything we once celebrated as ‘the Celtics way’. The Celtics did things right, we believed. They were loyal to players and players were loyal back. They believed in team defense, and in team cohesion, and spurned the obsession other organizations and fandoms had with gaudy statistics. They made moves carefully, always recognizing that the bird in the bush wasn’t necessarily better than the bird in the hand.
But it’s increasingly clear that the real reason for The Trade was that Ainge thought he might have some trouble re-signing Perkins. I think the rest of the turmoil that Ainge created was pretty much camouflage, and it worked brilliantly as camouflage. Everyone got so caught up in the massive disruption going on, and the bright new toys being brought in, that they lost sight of the basics: a team that was a leading contender for a championship, if not the leading contender, suddenly, with barely a third of the season to go, shipped a key starter out of town and disrupted the team as a whole with a flood of comings and goings. Why are folks in Celtics Land not outraged over this? Because of a contract dispute you basically tank a season, and not just any season, but one of the most intense and hopeful seasons Celtics fans have ever seen? Where is the outrage? But, snap, we have Stitch, and the Green Monster, and Murphy, and all the puzzle pieces are coming together, and wasn’t it awful how Perkins, or whatever his name was, could barely score, and isn’t Jeff Green the future of the Celtics …?!!
I like Green and Krstic. They are nice players, and Green in particular could really boost our bench and make us more flexible, though I wonder how his presence affects Baby’s role. But I think it is just obvious that Ainge should have sat pat through the trade deadline, possibly making a few strategic moves to clear a little room, and then gotten active with the buyouts. Well, it’s not just obvious. We should be ticked off as fans about the stunt that Ainge pulled.
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Chisala & paul… Don’t question my “following the Celtics” as I have for over 50 years and think I’ve seen more games and championships than you ever will (7 in a row vs the Lakers, etc.). I guess, too, you haven’t been around all year to read my posts or if you had then these inane comments would not constantly be coming up. Let’s start with the basics. Defense wins championships. Again, so you hear me and understand, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.
That said and agreed upon how can you Chisala continue to bemoan the loss of KP who averaged 5.8 pts and 5.8 rebs in last year’s Finals??? Yes, he was a very good defender but his rebounding was below average and his offense even below that level. He is not an all-star and never averaged 10 rebs in a game. Shaq and JO are the centers brought in to fortify that position. If KP was so f’in good then why bring in those centers? Yes he was injured but his knees are in trouble and he’s still out. Lastly, and for the last time hopefully, he was not going to make $50M (as he isn’t worth it) and the Cs couldn’t pay even what he got (so they fixed the bench with more offense and got a quality back-up who had 15 rebs last night – not bad in my book). Shaq will be back and based on his early play we’ll be fine. JO will be back too and I believe will be better now that his issues are resolved. Again, as Shaq has been saying, if this was the playoffs he’d be out there. We do not need him at this point in the season unless and until we get within striking distance of the home court advantage but we’re still down 6 games to SA. So in the interim, our new back-up center is producing and yes learning the Cs defense on the fly. Is he weak in the middle as a defender? Yes, but that will change as he learns and spends time working on that facet. But again, Shaq will be back. Is he a weak defender? Yeah right. Much better than KP in all facets of the game. So we improved our back-up center from Erden to Krstic. I’ll take that every time.
Now to this season’s issues: 1. Lack of rebounding (#29 out of 30 teams), 2. weak bench with no offensive punch and 3. playing down to sub .500 teams (i.e.. acting like a win is guaranteed just because they show up). I’ve addressed these issues all season numerous times and even daily it seems (ask any other poster or Jay) but will once again say that our bench is 1,000X better than with NR (gunner – terrible shot selection and game fell apart), MD (injured and weak offense), SE (project), LK (rookie that may be good but Doc doesn’t play rookies so that may be a loss down the road). We now have an athletic young wing in Green that can score instantly (in the first 11 mins last night he had 14 pts) which is something the bench needed. He can also defend and spell the oldsters (PP & RA). His rebounding needs focus, as it does with all the Cs (except KG). So we improved our bench with 2 former starters and then added Murphy (who will be fine as time goes on) and now can have a former starter as back-up for each current starter. Who has that? The Lakers, Miami, Chicago? Nope, nope, and nope. All the naysayers are in a panic over these moves but with 20 games left there’s plenty of time to get this team gelled. And your “5-yr argument” is meaningless as Shaq has more than enough championship experience.
Now to your comments about the team’s chemistry and “if it ain’t broke” – well remember last season when the starters coasted??? Same thing new year same old unfocused and uninspired play. And it was f’in broke or how do you explain all the losses to these sub .500 teams? Go back and review those losses and you’ll see a pattern of play that was not going to cut it in the playoffs.
I firmly believe that even if Shaq and JO never step on the court again this season that THIS Celtic’s team is far, far BETTER than last year’s Finals’ version. In closing I believe you and all the naysayers will be eating your words. No championship team ever stands pat, much-less one that gave up 23 offensive rebs to the Lakers and were -13 in rebs in Game 7. DA has made bold moves and brought in better players. Yes, they need time to gel but it’s already apparent because even paul, one of the most passionate naysayers to the ‘trade’ and moves, says he likes the new players. Well if you need baby steps then so be it. But when this team is at full strength it will deliver or I’ll be eating my words and admit you were correct in your opinions. But my experience of Celtic’s history says that ain’t gonna happen. Go Cs….
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@To all you negativity mongers this website has been ruined by immature and uninformed posters who can’t get over the KP trade. The blame starts with Jay and his chorus of copy cat posts. Lost in this whole brouha was that KP was a non factor this season and the Celtics are doing just fine without him. Even if the O’Neals don’t come back–this is a better Celtics Playoff basketball team.
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It’s all very simple… as Rondo goes so do the Celtics! He doesn’t look himself lately. The dee was fine down the stretch, unfortunately we didn’t score in 4 minutes..
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Jay can you explain this video? When, Where? I love it.
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@Frank Aziza, so you also noticed that our dear little Rondo is not himself ha! Last night’s game, everytime he had the ball he was looking to make a jump shot..What happened to our little assist machine? Still moaning I guess..
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@Paul, so good to know am not the only person here that knows that sport involves alot of emotion..Infact it starts with emotion..
@James, so you have been following the Celtics for 50 whole years..Wow congratulations to that and I mean it but I have to respectfully say that everything you just wrote is all wrong and bull####!!! So we were having rebounding problems with the old team but we were still leading the Eastern conference this season and second in the league. I would rather lack rebounds and go past the playoffs an qualify for finals than rebound as hell but fail to fend off the other team and in the end not make it to the finals..It’s strange that you can’t see that weeks before the playoffs is never the best time to destroy your whole team and try to build a new one…This new Celtics team may end up being one hell of a great team down the line but I can assure that it will not be this season..Come playoffs Shaq may give us a few minutes here and there but it wont be anything significant..The guy just can’t give the minutes we need even if he life deepended on it..The guy is OLD. Hell he looks exhausted just sitting down. And that Jermain O’neal guy you keep putting your faith in, last time he played was nothing sensational. His defense, like Jay King would say ” his dog has put up better defense than what Jermain O’neal tried to pass off as his defense last time he was on the green court.” Shaq though I believe his defense is WORLD CLASS except he cant put in the minutes. In the end, we are so done.. But the good thing is that even if both O’neals do disappoint us (of which they will) in playoffs or finals at least we will have Nenad Krsitic to depend on, right? Seriously wake and realize that the new Celtics team is hopeless and the big 4 has lost morale…The curse of Babe Ruth all over again!!!!!
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@Chisala… I guess you never heard Pat Riley when he was winning those championships with the Lakers say repeatedly (which became their mantra) – “no rebounds, no rings”. Your grasp of understanding hoops is so little and is likely less than Jay’s dog (p.s. JO was injured ergo his problems playing) so let me educate you. Rebounding is defense. More rebounds equals more shot opportunities for the Cs and LESS for the opponent. Game 7 last yr -13 boards equaled +12 more shots for the Lakers (look at the box score). Lakers shot 32% so of those 12 shots 4 were made or +8 pts for the Lakers. Take those away and who wins??? Can you grasp that? When the Cs won the title in ’08 they were 3rd in the league in rebounding. Last yr they were 23rd. Go look at the top teams and see were they stand. Lakers, Chicago, SA, and Miami are all top rebounding teams. Yes, our injuries to our bigs have hurt but the players are not rebounding and that is killing this team. Look at the box scores of the losses and you’ll see they were out-rebounded consistently. And, last I looked we’re still leading the Eastern Conference or am I missing something in the standings? Please give it some time instead of putting the gun to your head and pulling the trigger on this season. We’re going to the Finals baring any injury to one of the core starters. Go Cs…
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Let me ask you something… and I agree with you about changing the team so drastically in March could cost us a title. If this was the roster from training camp i think it’s a better team. Now back to my question.. what team in the east benefits from us losing Park? I think Orlando but do u seriously think we will lose a best of 7 to Orlando? If Shaq gives us 18 minutes a night we should be OK. Who on Chicago or Miami is going to exploit us down low with no Perk? I understand LBJ might get to rim more, i get all that.. but they don’t have bigs.. we still have the size. As for the Lakers, well, they scare me with or without Perk… lets get one thing straight, after watching Krystic for 7 games he is a much better rebounder then Perk. You can see it. Especially on the offensive glass.. the whole thing is chemistry and the new guys learning the defensive schemes. I don’t know what the deal is with RR… maybe he is hurting or tired.
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Has KP been a factor this year?-No. Is KP a factor now?-No, Will injury prone KP be a factor this year?-No one knows. Are the Celtics better off with Green and Krstic than an injured KP?-Yes Even if KP is healthy the Celtics are a better team with the addition of Green and Krstic. When you consider the benefit of the quality backup minutes Green provides in 3 positions and Krstic superior numbers compared to KP, there is no conceivable way you can build a case that the Celtics are better with KP than Krstic and Green.
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Good stuff, everyone. If the Celtics want it badly enough, they will play the D necessary to win. Defense alone does not guarantee rebounds, however, James.
I’ve seen the C’s play great D which leads to missed shots, yet they don’t box out and give up offensive boards, time and time again.
In their first game against the Lakers this year, Doc preached rebounding all week long and it worked. They won in LA. That showed me they can win the boards when they want to (though yeah, they did have KP that game). But Shaq hit the boards that game, as did Rondo and everyone else. Rebounding is a TEAM effort, everyone boxing out their man and WANTING the ball.
There are so many pieces of this puzzle to put together. I wouldn’t be surprised if the C’s won the championship or exited in the first round against a younger, faster team with more desire, i.e. Philly, a team that is CHARGED right now. As are the Bulls, the top team in the East as of right now.
19 games left. Is that enough time to get people healthy and get this team to gel?
We shall see.
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Chris H… my point was that rebounding is a part of defense besides guarding someone as Chisala keeps promoting how great KP was and what his loss means to the team. It’s team defense and the new guys will be fine and the whole team will be ready when the regular season is finished. If they get focused now though they can still get the home court advantage vs the Bulls. It’s too bad Doc says nothing about the rebounding other than that one game, but I remember Shaq talking about how they needed to get better before his injury. It’s mostly the guards (RA especially) and the bench that are not hitting the boards. And PP is down 15% from his career rebounding average this year, too. They all have to get better. Go Cs…
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I hear ya James; and I agree with you and everyone else who says it’s time to move on beyond the trade. We have Green (who could be the missing piece off the bench, something they were in dire need of) and Krystic, who will never be the defender that KP was, but hopefully his plus-minus ratio will be higher, especially if he can learn the team defense system.
Had they kept KP, he’d be on the bench with the rest of the injured pack, so right now, the new players are an added bonus.
I’m not as optimsitic about the C’s being able to gel or get healthy in time to make a run. And I’m not worried about home court so much in the Eastern Conference as the NBA finals. That 2-3-2 format is a killer for the team without the advantage. In any other series, I think the C’s can steal one of two on the road and win it in 6 games. Heck, sometimes it’s more pressure starting at home because you almost have to win the first two games.
I don’t think the Spurs will be in the Finals. Likely it will be the Lakers; they are back on top of their game and can hit that switch better than anyone in the West. Hopefully the C’s can stay ahead of them in the standings, should we be lucky enough to return.
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PS, I live in LA and am unfortunately exposed to the Lakers far more than the Celtics. As much as I hate Kobe and the Gang, they are impressive. It’s going to take a lot for anyone to beat them in a 7 game series.
But I hope to see that look on Jack Nicholson’s face when they lose to the Green.
Go C’s
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Hey Paul.. very nice post about Celtics loyalty.. Ainge was traded for Klein and Pickney. I guess Doc and Danny felt we could be better in May and June.
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I don’t see where loyalty has any place in professional sports except with perhaps the very exceptional and special players like a Larry Bird or Paul Pierce. How did we get Kevin Garnett? Did anyone complain in Boston that we got him and Ray Allen? Trades and contracts are usual and customary. A fan’s allegiance is with the team not individual players. What is the logical extension of the concept of loyalty in professional sports? Each player, as long as he tried to play hard and was a good community member would play for just one team for his whole career.
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