Game Thread: Mavericks-Thunder
The Cleveland Cavaliers won the first pick in this summer’s draft, meaning Dan Gilbert’s “I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER ‘KING’ WINS ONE” plan has taken one step closer to becoming reality. Um, or not. Sadly for Cleveland, they’re about ten players short of a title team. Even more sadly for Cleveland, this draft has no certain saviors.
Anyway, I’m trying something new tonight: a game thread for a game the Celtics aren’t playing in. Leave your comments about Mavericks-Thunder below. I’ve got the Thunder in six because of their athleticism, even if I’m deathly afraid of their late-game execution (or, rather, their late-game battle for the conch). Yes, I just made a “Lord of the Flies” reference. I feel like I’m back in 7th-grade English class.
Have at it in the comment section, folks. I hope this game thread works out.
Related posts:
Celtics Blog | Jay King | May 17, 2011
NR’s getting lit up big time. Glad he’s gone, too. Go Cs…
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I’m surprised that Nate can’t stay with Barea. When he was with us, he was very good at staying in front of guards.
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You got that right, James. But it’s weird. Defense used to be a strong point of Nate’s. He must be very cold.
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Wow-itcould be a game again! I wasn’t expecting htat!
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paul…again where was Perk’s loyalty to the Cs??? Why didn’t he sign the best deal they could give him? And his -18 tonight speaks volumes about his worth. Go Cs…
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In all fairness, the offer they gave to Perk was really, really low considering his value. They could have offered a lot more this summer if they had wanted to, and I’m sure that’s what he was waiting for.
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paul…have we set the C-Town record for comments??? I think we’ve also scared everyone away. Nice bantering with you as always. As I said, Dallas in 5! Go Cs…
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Ahhh Jay’s still with us…#58 and counting. Perk wasn’t worth what OKC gave him. Go Cs…
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Such a scrub Perkins is!! Lol!!
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James, I have to change my assessment. I had said OKC in six. Now I have to admit, it’ll take seven
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The thing is, even if resigning Perkins was a lost cause, that is a reason for a post-season trade, not a trade on the verge of the playoffs for a team that is in hot contention for a championship.
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Nice to see the Refs for once call a legit foul on the guy covering N.
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I think Dirk has turned into what Kobe used to be – the Killer.
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paul.. I will agree that trading in the off-season is preferable but the Cs had no bench and NR was sucking, MD was injured and done for the year. The centers we had were playing well so DA was also sort of forced to make the move once Perk said no to the contract offer. Go Cs…
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I don’t get what Westbrook was doing on that play, neither doubling Dirk, nor attacking the passing lane to Terry.
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James, it wasn’t a matter of being preferable to trade in the offseason. At that point in the season it was FAR too late for such a trade. And no, the Centers we had were NOT playing well at that point. They had both succumbed to injury, and there was little reasonable prospect that they would return in anything like healthy form. Nor did they. They tried like the lions they are, but they JUST COULDN’T. And no, we didn’t have “no bench”. We had plenty of bench. We had a specific problem – no backup for PP. And fixing that hole in the bench by making a huge hole in the starting lineup – there’s just no non-crazy way to justify that.
What is more and more amazing is how Ainge’s defenders continue to preach these clearly nonsensical arguments. They are basically nonsense on the face. No, you don’t rip a hole in your starting lineup to fix a hole in your bench. No, you don’t reset the team to preseason on the verge of the playoffs.
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Nice game. Thunder could have won. They certainly didn’t fold.
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I have to say, though: watching Nowitski get all the cheap calls really sucks. The NBA is a game where the refs are so involved that they really are part of the game, and clearly affect outcomes. I think the Thunder need to send this game film to the league and ask how they can play defense against Nowitski when the refs call the game like this. 24 foul shots? That’s madness.
Kudos to Nowitski, though. He is such a Killer. He did it to the Celtics twice.
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Ok, thanks guys
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Far too late for such a trade, or far too early, depending on how one looks at it. If you were going to trade Perk, you had to wait until after the playoffs.
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paul…so Perk was guaranteed to come back and play (as he has – very mediocre) and then with no back up for PP what were the Cs to do? Get f’in Anthony Parker?
Again, where was Perk’s loyalty??? Oh, it was to the money not the team. Whereas RA took a $10M hit to stay. And Shaq came for basically $1.25M and passed up at least $5M per year. Same for JO as Miami wanted him. That’s f’in loyalty. Perk QUIT on the Celtics and that’s unarguable and undefensable. Period. Go Cs….
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Damn. I was wrong Jay. Great idea for your open thread. I didn’t expect that many responses. 71? I’ve never seen that many for one article. Great idea.
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James, Perkins isn’t mediocre at all. He’s an absolute master at what he does, which is very limited, and very necessary.
As for backing up PP, that’s where you look to a stopgap. What Danny chose to do was to go for a really good backup for Pierce (who then turned out not to be that good, but really, that’s not the issue – even if Green had been brilliant, The Trade still would have not made sense), and a stopgap for starting center. That’s clearly the opposite to how it should have been. If only one of the two can be solid, it has to be your starting center. Losing Daniels sucked. A lot. But it WASN’T a reason to panic.
Come off it, James. This is elementary stuff.
You mention Perkins’ loyalty. I actually think that he would ultimately have chosen to stay, especially if we went deep into the playoffs. But to call him disloyal just because he didn’t sign on Danny’s schedule is just plain ridiculous. If you’ll recall, most of the resignings last year happened after the season was over. To call Perkins ‘disloyal’ is just plain insulting, really. Even IF he had gone elsewhere for more money in the offseason, it would be a stretch to call that disloyal, but we don’t know if he would have done so. He said he preferred to stay, and I’m pretty sure he did.
Speaking of Shaq being loyal or JO is just beyond silly. You can’t call players who have barely been here for one season loyal or disloyal. They haven’t even been here long enough to be in that category. Really, how DARE you compare them to Perkins, who has been with us for years now? HOW DARE YOU? By comparison to Perkins, those two guys are just passing ships.
I mean, saying that Perkins Quit on the Celtics? How dare you say that? The guy worked his effing ass off to get back on the floor for us.
You mention that RA took less money than he might have elsewhere. Well that’s uncertain, but what you are ignoring is that Allen has had big contracts before. Perk was looking for his first big payday. And even so, he very likely would have stayed.
Please. Stop with the increasingly silly arguments in favor of The Trade. Why are you so hellbent on defending Ainge? No one forced Ainge to do what he did.
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Haha, Nick. Where were you? It was mostly me and James slagging each other!
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Paul.. I watched the whole game too! I dismissed it because I didn’t think anyone would write on it. I like reading your and James’ arguments, they’re intriguing. Your both very intelligent basketball people, with separate opinions on Perk. Haha.
If I remember, I’ll make sure to come check your guys’ debate tomorrow if/when Jay does one for the Heat game.
At least you two can agree that you want the Heat to lose. Hahaha.
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Also, nice job Jay on putting one-armed rondo on the wall. I say that because I believe that that was the highlight of the year, and, will be what we all remember the Celtics season by.
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And when is chapter two of your book Jay? I enjoyed that read.
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paul..so 5.8 pts and 5.8 rebounds isn’t mediocre? Those were Perk’s stats in the Finals last year. So he’s a big body in the paint. He had 0 blocks tonight, 5 rebs and 7 pts. God those are the stats of a quarter hall of famer at best. You are so in love with Perk your blinders and (as Jay calls it) beer goggles are not just fogged up they are painted black as night. And if I remember, you yourself talked about Shaq coming to the Cs for less money so he could play with the core 4 to win not one but two titles. Perk won with the core 4 and then decided his great play was worth more than DA’s offer. So he in fact rejected the only offer DA could make and then got his money from OKC. Loyalty is EXACTLY as I wrote that RA/Shaq/JO showed. RA gave up 50% of his salary to stay. Shaq and JO gave up more to come to Boston as they were loyal to the Cs pride, cause, and f’in way of play. Perk wanted $55M and he wasn’t getting it from the Cs unless they dumped one of the core 4. He wanted Rondo money but he isn’t 1/4 as valuable as Rondo has shown. That’s called greed, paul and in my book that’s also quitting on staying with the team that gave him everything he has. Eight years of an over weight center that never averaged 10 rebs. Go look at his playoff stats and you’ll see that although he is playing more minutes the only stat that is up is his personal fouls per game. Defend his stats, paul. You can’t. He was a good Celtic player because of KG and his great defensive help. Perk is a slow out of shape center that fumbles the ball as if it was a large pumpkin. His offense is weak, his rebounding is average to poor for a starting center and he’s EXTREMELY foul prone and then BITCHES about every call.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2018/kendrick-perkins
I defend DA because he brought banner #17 to the Cs. I defend the trade because it improved the team. The injuries curtailed that improvement. But go ahead and keep singing Perk’s praises because God knows you are 100% right and my observations are “silly arguments”. Whatever gets you through the night paul…but you need the blinders off. Go Cs…
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James… Not to get in the middle of you and Pauls debate/argument, but everyone in the NBA bitches about every call. Including KG, who is most infamous for it, so you cannot use that as a reason to support your side of the argument.
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Nick…yeah I agree but Perk’s bitching is so demonstrative they changed the rules to stop it. As I’ve said, I appreciated Perk’s time, effort, and contributions to the Cs but he was the moveable piece of the puzzle and therefore once he rejected a reasonable offer he became the one tradable player the Cs had. It wasn’t like they had no centers to fall back on and even got a good back-up in the process. I’m worn out. How about that new wall! Pretty great day all in all in C-Town. Goodnight to all. Go Cs…
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Just popping in to state for the record I have Dallas in 6 or 7 because young teams don’t perform as well on the road, if OKC had homecourt I’d go with them, but they don’t so I think that gives the Mavs the edge.
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James, the argument isn’t that Perkins should never have been traded, though I think the Celtics should have thought long and hard before trading such a strong, young center, a guy who anchors a team extremely well; the argument is over the EXTREMELY insane timing of the trade, so insane that even Doc complained about it (once he had the contract inked for his sackful of coaching cash).
And yes, James, it pretty much WAS as if they had no centers to fall back on. They had a bunch of inadequate centers, two guys hobbled and one guy who is a softy, all three of them good BACKUPs. And how on earth do you say that we had no one at all to backup Pierce, yet you claim that we had plenty of centers? Of course we had bodies to back Pierce, and we certainly could have picked someone up to do it, but what we didn’t have was someone really good. That was our situation at center. Yet you CLAIM that you can’t see the difference between having a stopgap as a starter and a stopgap as a sub.
Yes, it’s simple and basic. If you have to have a stopgap, you want them coming off the bench, NOT STARTING. Especially at Center.
Hillcrestwildcat, I have to admit; after last night’s amazing performance by Killer Dirk, and also after seeing the way the refs wouldn’t allow anyone to put any defense on Dirk, it’s pretty hard to see the Thunder even competing in this series, much less winning. That said, they did hang in there despite everything, even leading at one point, and we all know how the complexion of a series can change from game to game. We’ll see how game 2 goes.
James, again: Perkins’ stats are mediocre. No one denies that. No one. But his game isn’t about stats. He gives you a very big, active, aware and tough guy clogging up the middle and setting picks. He is very much the lunchpail guy anchoring your team. He’s Dave Cowens without Cowens’ talent. In other words, he gives a team the most basic things they need from a center, things that MOST centers do NOT give their teams as consistently as Perkins does. And come on, you know that. I’m damn well not telling you anything you don’t know.
No, Perkins didn’t show disloyalty. You think loyalty means taking less money than you can get. That’s only ONE way of showing loyalty. To even speak of Shaq as showing loyalty is truly insulting to Perkins. Shaq is a guy who flew through here one season in hopes of a championship. He isn’t loyal or disloyal. He doesn’t even begin to approach that category. Ditto for Jermaine. Both guys tried hard to give us what we needed. I respect them for that. But loyalty is not even an issue.
As for Allen taking a pay cut, he was very unlikely to get a big contract elsewhere. He’s an aging star now, a guy who is less and less able to make things happen by himself. He needs the environment he is in here to be successful. No one was going to cut him a massive contract, most likely.
But also, he is a guy who has made his big money already. Perkins was looking for his first big one. He damn well earned it. If you want to call someone disloyal, you need to call Danny disloyal. Danny wouldn’t even negotiate with the guy. He basically said “here’s an offer. sign it or you are gone, ******”. He played some brutal hardball with Perkins, showing EXTREME disloyalty. See, you don’t care about that, do you? Your attitude is that the player is wrong and the management is right. You worship authority. At least, that’s what I pick up from you. And by the way, is Danny playing for peanuts? Is Doc? I’ll bet Doc is the best paid coach in the league now.
I actually agree with you that they couldn’t pay Perkins Rondo money. If that’s what he wanted, he was going to have to go, probably. But negotiations had BARELY started when Ainge decided to be a blazing hard ass to Perkins and trade his butt. And the result was that Ainge basically destroyed the team’s championship hopes, pretty much just to spite Perkins.
So I give you credit for at least talking about the real issue, which was Perkins’ contract. But you’d rather be mad at Perkins, for his imaginary disloyalty, than be mad at Danny, for being a total ******* to Perkins, and for being an even bigger ******* to the fans and the team.
Even now, Ainge refuses to acknowledge what he did. And he tells us the most nauseating lies to try to cover himself. We, as fans, need to have a little more self respect
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As for the new Wall, what do you want me to say? I like the fact that Rondo is front and center. I appreciate the fact that Jay didn’t take Perkins down until the season was over.
I think that showed appropriate respect to Perkins.
So many fans treat players as disposable. That’s not just a shame. It’s shameful.
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paul…the timing was done because Shaq and JO were still options whereas there were no options for the bench. Read my posts again. Shaq can set picks pretty good as he’s bigger than Perk and so can JO who also is a shot blocker like Shaq, but unlike Perk. Again, so what if he’s a big body? He was a mediocre passer, again both skills that Shaq and JO are better at. He fumbled the ball so many times it kills his offense and the team’s offense. How many times was he stripped of the ball trying to make a simple lay-up?
Ray was certainly capable of earning more than $10M but likely less than the $20M he got. After-all, he’s the premier 3 shooter in the league and Miami wanted him. Shaq and JO showed loyalty by buying into Celtic Pride and sacrificing to come to Boston to help the core 4 win more titles. They were loyal to the Celtic way of play, defense, team ball, and what that encompasses. That is the highest compliment to both of them that they shunned all other suitors to come play a style of championship ball that only 1 team plays and espouses – THE BOSTON CELTICS.
Perk was not going to get “his big pay day” from the Celtics as they DID NOT HAVE THE MONEY. And as you acknowledge he was not worth Rondo money so he was (again) the only moveable piece…so he got moved. There was no room to negotiate as DA offered Perk the max that he could without further putting the Cs over the luxury cap. How can you not see that?
How am I mad at Perk? He did very well for himself and the Celtics GOT BETTER. Again, and please read this over and over for the next hour, day, week, or month until you get it – injuries killed this team and nothing else. If Shaq was healthy, or JO (and Rondo hadn’t been injured), and we beat Miami and were beating the Bulls now you’d be the happiest C fan around (other than me, rondeezy, Nick, Nate, Sarah and Chris H and all other C-Towners). But circumstances have forced you to have blinders on and bitch about something that was over months ago.
You’ll likely be bringing this up next season and forever but the fact remains, as you agreed about Perk being mediocre, that the trade did not kill the Celtic championship run because even if it did not happen Shaq, JO and Rondo would all STILL be injured. So what advantage did we lose under that scenario paul? Nothing as there isn’t any. Injuries decimated the run this season and Perk would have been gone after the season as his continued play speaks volumes about his worth.
DA will never say he made any mistake and shouldn’t because he didn’t and as for Doc shooting off his mouth about the “timing” that’s a bunch of sour grapes and he should shut his f’in trap. Those kind of statements are certainly disloyal to the Celtic cause and serve no redeeming purpose. Go Cs…
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